obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am, but -- >> you're saying capitulate to obama, who -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, sean. >>> meanwhile, the house of representatives passed legislation yesterday removing the word lunatic from all federal laws. it's the latest move by congress to remove language seen as demeaning or out of date, like lunatic. >>> and in australia, prime minister julia gillard talked about the supposed prediction by the mayan calendar that the end of the world is coming in two weeks. well, she did it for a comedy video for a radio show. >> i'm confident in the prediction that the world is about to end. whether the final blow comes from flesh-eating zombies, demonic hill beasts or from the total triumph of cable, if you know one thing about me, it is this, i will always fight for you to the very end. and at least this means i won't have to do q&a again. good luck to you all. >> the dead-pan delivery, always important in comedy. that is your morning dish of "scrambled politics." >>> and now for a look at yo

just bully him. >> i see steve as part of the decline of america. >> this whole thing with obama saying the rich don't pay their taxes is [bleep]. >> and i voted for the guy and i'm a democrat. what a [bleep]. >> the rich don't pay their taxes, let me tell you something, right? first they say your dead broke. the united states of america. you can do anything you want. go for it. so then you go for it and then you make and it it's like [bleep] you. >> i think a lot of people feel the way you do, that very frustrating and all of this class warfare, but you're kind of disrespectful when you called barack obama, the president of the united states, a blanking blank. do you feel bad about doing that? >> no. because you have to put it in context. i'm in a comedy club, my own comedy club and doing a pod cast and you're just open and hospital and that's the nature of any comedy club. there's no language restrictions. so you just basically say how you feel. i wouldn't say that now. it's different in the club. i do standup, my whole act i make fun of everybody. and you can't say on televisi

. >>> coming up, new signs president obama's winning the tax fight. news today could strengthen his hand against speaker boehner. >>> plus, karl rove hasn't learned a thing is since its infamous air meltdown. why is he questioning polls again? >>> and a very special guest is here with me tonight. we have a gold medal winner onset. gabby douglas live in the studio. her story of sacrifice inspired a country. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >>> have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today our fans were buzzing over the newly released photo of the president on the phone with mitt romney as he conceded to him on election night. he have len says, the president was probably so glad it was over so that he could get back to working for our country. david says, he must have been elated and relieved. linda says, i

have to write a check on january 2nd. he'll have time, then, to introduce the obama tax cuts and basically dare the republican -- the 113th congress not to vote for him. >> when he puts out his plan, then you hear, chris, i was very intrigued by the statement that charles made on fox, that the obama offer is worse than what was offered to general lee at the end of the civil war. listen to this. >> it's not just a bad deal. this is really an insulting deal. what git near offered on the screen, robert e. lee was offered better deals and he lost the civil war. this is almost unheard of. mine, what do they expect? they obviously expect republicans to cave on everything. i think republicans ought to simply walk away. >> chris, i think with lincoln outdone, i think he could have used a better analogy. >> look, the funny thing is the end of that statement, which is, i keep saying, rush limbaugh keeps saying, walk away. walk away. if they walk away, all of the taxes go up. the delicious irony, i will note, is to have them sunset so the cost was lower than what it would be if therm perman

tax cuts for the top 2%. >> so are you saying then for pr purposes, that they should give into obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> i'm sorry, that was not one of the top conservative minds. that was ann coulter, but you have to and it to her. she's onto something there. a new quinnipiac poll shows 65% of americans support higher taxes on incomes over $250,000. the same survey showing the president's approval rating at a three-year high, 53%. the highest level since the body of osama bin laden was dumped in the north arabian sea. perhaps that's why senate majority leader harry reid felt confident enough to declare that until republicans move on tax rates, more spending cuts are off the table. >> the president made clear, i have tried to make very clear, until there's some movement in tax rates, we're -- i'm not talking about any other proposals, not about where there will be a cut here or a cut there. >> no. as a matter of fact, the only cuts the senate is talking about today are in terms of staff on the republican side. with the surprise news today tha

current law without a thing done as far as the president obama wanting the taxes on the rich to go up. he's already done it. there's 1% medicare tax on people who earn over $250,000 a year. gerri: income tax. >> a payroll tax strictly. it's added to the medicare tax that's taken out, makes a small stop in the trust fund, and funds another program that the president likes. this is the problem. the president is not hoonest with us or the american people. he tells you he loves you and wants to take care of you, but the fact of the matter is, he's going to raise your taxes to a level that, in fact, it's going to kill economic activity in the country. how do we know? look what's happening. on your crawl on the television, dividends paid before december 31st, and why? that behavior's driven by changes in the tax code that are existing law. he's counting on people not paying attention to that. it's the holidays, that's right. they are preparing for christmas, but they have to be worried # about the tax code. gerri: a tax revolt. you'll get more of the same if december 31st passing and nob

told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if any meetings have been scheduled. but any small sign of progress is welcome here on capitol hill. now with so many lawmakers headed home and likely to face the ire of their constituents, we saw one protester in baltimore yesterday over social security. there are a few left. today there's a joint economic committee hearing. they're going to hear from a top economist not only about the jobs numbers coming out tomorrow but also about what can be done to avoid this issue at the end of the year. >>

trillion in spending savings and not a dollar of tax increase. why? because obama overplayed his hand. he's doing it again. just as he did in 2008. he thought the country had given him a blank sheet of paper to work on. he did the stimulus spending. he went from 70% support down to below 50% and lost the house. now he gets re-elected with less strength, not against a war hero but a guy from massachusetts, and the republicans have the house and he thinks somebody made him king and he's going to have more taxes, more spending, and more regulations. it's a real problem for him. he doesn't have the mandate he thinks he does. so i think he takes us over the cliff because he doesn't -- he's got blinders on. he doesn't see where he stands in the universe. >> okay. there are a couple things to unpack here. i want to go back to this question -- i think what i'm confused about is this kind of game of smoke and mirrors that seems to be playing out on the right. and i ask you again, is closing a loophole and ending a deduction the same thing as raising taxes? >> you have to look at the whole pack

was on november 6th. president obama ran on raising taxes on the wealthiest americans and not hitting beneficiaries of medicare, medicaid and social security. this is his leverage. >> this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. this was a major debate in the presidential and congressional campaigns across the country. a clear majority of americans, not just democrats but also a lot of republicans and a lot of independents agreed we should have a balance approach to deficit reduction that doesn't hurt the economy and doesn't hurt middle class families. >> republicans spent the last four years saying that president obama doesn't understand the economy. voters said that they were wrong. now, john boehner has really worked himself into a position. he is really in an untenable position. he is going against the majority of americans here. he is willing to say, our ideology is more important than the way you think and the way the majority thinks in this country. you know what the democrats ought to do. they ought to resource his district. you know he that boehner ran unopposed. maybe if he knew

. >> i see steve as part of the decline of america. >> this whole thing with obama saying the rich don't pay their taxes is (bleep). i voted for the guy and i am a democrat. what a (bleep). the rich don't pay their taxes let me tell you something. first united states of america you can do anything you want. go for it. so then you go for it and you make it and they are like (bleep) you. >> i think people feel the way you do and it's frustrating but you were kind of disrespectful when you call barack obama a blankityy blank. do you feel bad about that? >> no, because you have to put that in context. i am in my own comedy club i am doing a pod cast there the nature of pod casts you are open and honest. that's the nature of comedy club. there's no language restrictions. you basically say how you feel. i wouldn't say that now. it is different in a club. i do stand up you make fun of everybody. you can't say in a clon televisn what you would say in a private club. >> we live in an electronic world where everything everybody says is instantly on the internet and whipped around the world.

here, president obama takes his tax plan on the road trying to sell it to the american people. republicans aren't buying it. congressman jason chav fitz joins me. fay yesterday and ambassador martin indyk with reaction to the vote at the u.n. and the wife of an american contractor jailed? cuba turns up the heat on the u.s. government and one campaign ceo michael elliott on the work that needs to be done. that plus the lottery winners power ball. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. n an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.

. president obama is selling his economic agenda and using all the right tools. the president was surrounded today by middle class taxpayers at the white house as he pushed for an extension of the tax cuts for income below $250,000. he quas quick to highlight the break in the ranks with the republicans. >> i am glad to see, if you've been reading the papers lately, that more and more republicans in congress, seem to be agreeing with this idea that we should have a balanced approach. so if both parties agree we should not raise taxes on middle class families, let's begin our work with where we agree. >> president obama isn't talking about some moderate republican or some blue dog democrat, he is talking about conservative republican oklahoma congressman, tom cole. cole is the first republican to openly call for agreeing to middle class tax cuts. >> we all agree that we are not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of this discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases, continue to try to work honestly for a muc

president obama pocket $1 trillion in tax revenue and secure a win on his key priority in the talks. but they would do nothing else. at the end of the year, we would still go over the fiscal cliff. remember, the bush tax cuts are one of the at least stimulative policies in the negotiations. according to the economic policy institute, extending the middle class tax cuts would wipe out only about 11% of the austerity's economic impact. 11%. but all that other stuff, the payroll tax cut, the unemployment insurance, the sequester, all that, that would still be expiring. so come early next year, the economy would likely be entering an austerity-induced recession. markets would be convulsing as they realize our austerity crisis is about to become also a default crisis. and so the economy, as a whole, is going to be going nuts. poll after poll already shows republicans are receiving more blame for the potential failure of the debt talks. and after telling the press they're going to make a strategic decision to use a debt ceiling as more and more dangerous leverage, they're likely going to

obama is pushing for $1 trillion in tax increases, pushing it for a long time. he feels he has a mandate on that now. we know his idea is about raising revenue. we don't know what the republicans ideas are on the revenue. that's what we need to know. that's the whole question, what are they. go ahead. >> we've heard from lindsey graham yesterday or the day before with regards to revenue. he still contends, ari, that you can raise a significant chunk of revenue, he's thrown out $800 billion at least by closing loopholes and limiting deductions, whether it's $30,000, $40,000, $50,000. >> yeah, but he's just talking, right? just talking. what the president has done is outlined a plan. he outlined it once and the american people voted for it, and he outlined it again, not surprisingly, the same core arguments, same basic idea the people who make over a quarter million will have that money taxed and we have to do stuff around jobs and infrastructure. they shouldn't be surprised. they need to pony up their own plan on paper. that's the reason why we're likely to go over an overhyped cl

washington. now we know. president obama has been reelected, taxes are going to go up one way or another, are they going to go up for everybody or just for the wealthy and then we can get the american economy rolling again. i think the stock market is very smart about this. it realizes that all this is much adue about nothing, taxes are going to go up. if they reach adeal and that falls apart that, could send the stock market reeling, like it did in 2008 when everybody thought congress was going to do the t.a.r.p. bailout and didn't and then they came back and did it. >> we had the business roundtable yesterday where the boeing ceo in the introduction to the president said there's not a lot of wall flowers in this room. the president knew the crowd he was meeting with and talking to and the president saying i passionately rooting for all of your successes. >> on the one hand we all know that wall street supported mitt romney because he was one of them. on the other hand, this is exactly what the president should be doing, meeting with these business leaders, mending fences. now,

. the president is willing to accept 98% of bush tax policy just to get a deal, okay. if we go over the cliff, it clears the slate and gives the obama team an opportunity to come back and really focus in on things better for the middle class. boehner knows this. this is why boehner is now coming to the table saying, all right, we can't do the cliff thing, we'll get the political hit for it and we'll also be in a bad negotiating position. but he has to identify where the money's coming from. and it's got to be rates. i get a sense in washington that the democrats have drawn the line in the sand on rates. if you can't get rates, you can't get anything else. boehner's going to come out and identify a bunch of deductions. that's not going to be enough. you got to go the rates. once you do the rates, everything else might fall in place because do i think the white house will negotiate. >> i want to go over the stakes of all of this just for the average american family, if we do go over the cliff, about 90% of households would end up paying almost $3,500 more in taxes and one in five acti

in kind of a frustrated way when they say, well, obama doesn't have a mandate to raise taxes. george bush cut taxes and started two wars with a minus half a million margin in the polls. barack obama has 3.5 million plus. so if 3 3.5 million plus isn't enough of a mandate to do something about taxes, what the hell was a half million loss? >> we're going to miss you congressman frank, barney frank ending an incredible career in massachusetts. we'll have you back again, if we can. >> i'll be around, chris. >> i want to ask you what you'll miss, positively and negative will from the congress. thanks for coming on tonight, congressman. >> you're welcome. >>> when we return, let me finish with whether the politicians who run the government will be able to do what's right, do what's necessary. this month. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. made a comm. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed

, they were facing after with compromised proposal. deep in the obama boehner negotiations, they were talking about a proposal with 800 billion in revenue that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the people i talk with in washington are saying we're not going to get deep into this until mid-december at least. if we do a process of kind of incrementally coming from in between the two proposals, you could very easily imagine between obama and boehner on tacks is $1.2 trillion. that's where they end up on mandatory spending, 750. that wouldn't be a shocker either. boehner's opening bid here is not the bid of the side in the stronger position. it's a side desperately trying to get the press to compromise. >> now, michelle whark we don't see in the

." today president obama again made clear there will be no deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff without the rich paying a higher tax rate. got it? higher rate. in this interview on bloomberg tv, he made it. let's listen. >> the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgment that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms in entitlements that i'm prepared to make, that we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up, and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> there you heard it again, top rates have to go up, and rates. and some republicans are saying that the gop will ultimately say uncle. conservative columnist byron york, a very smart guy, wrote, quote, republicans will cave on the question of raising the tax rate for the highest income americans. the only question is whether they do so before or after the government goes over the so-called fiscal cliff. "new york times" columnist david brooks describes it this way. republicans will be raising middle c

bid, president obama hits the philadelphia suburbs campaigning hard for his plan to raise taxes on the rich. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable for you for a handful of members of congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage because they don't want rates on upper incomes to go up. that doesn't make sense. >> the speaker was quick to respond. increasing tax rates draws money away from our economy that need to be invested in our economy to put the american people back to work. it's the wrong approach. we're willing to put revenues on the table, closing loopholes and not raising rates. we think it's better for the economy, pure and simple. >> and just now, hitting the jackpot. the small town missouri couple who have had more than their share of hard times win the powerball and with the great american generous spirit are taking it in stride. >> our main concern is our family and, of course, and we have a very large family and then next is our charities we'll be giving to. yeah. it's like how much does a person need? >> and is this man who went to a marylan

than that. it says here again, here's the headline. obama is flexible of highest tax rates. and what it says is that it's not so much that he won't sign anything, it's more of how high the tax rates would go. so does that -- how do you see that? how do you reed that? caller: i would really be disappointed in that, because he's been fighting for that since the beginning. he relented a few years ago in order to save the unemployment insurance for the unemployed people and some other stipulations that were being held hostage by the g.o.p. but he doesn't have to do that any more. and right after he did that, they called that his tax breaks for the wealthy. and he absolutely didn't want to do that. but he felt compeled to to save the people who really needed help. he doesn't need to do that now. those same people that needed that help, they realized that he did that for him. if all of the tax rates go up, and i'm one of those below $40,000, all of the tax rates go up, i'd be willing to sacrifice just so the black mail can't continue. host: all right fran, thank you for calling in. here's

class tax cuts. this morning, president obama also pushed away republican senator orrin hatch called his proposal, radical. >> it's unacceptable for some republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they refuse to let tax rates go up on the we weltmist americans. >> what he proposed this week is a classic bait and switch on the american people. a tax increase doubled the size of what he campaigned on. >> joining me now nbc news white house correspondent mike viqueira. mike, let's talk about this thing. this is the time the lawmakers are breaking out the rule book to find some tricks. how does pelosi think she can force a vote on middle class tax cuts? >> it's funny, craig, the president visited the tinker toy factory yesterday but he's not playing around, that is for certain. his opening bid delivered by tim geithner the treasury secretary on thursday up on the hill was such a one-way document as far as republicans were concerned that the republican leader of the senate broke out in a burst of laughter when he saw $1.6 trillion in new revenues, princip

, for pr purposes that they should give into obama on the tax rate in. >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> ka pit late to obama who is -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, shawn. >> i can't believe i'm saying this, but ann coultter is right. they lost. the question may now be when, not if, the republicans will cave on taxes. joining me now is dana milbank, columnist for "the washington post." he's writing about the republicans waving tax hikes and cynthia tucker and visiting professor of journalism at the university of georgia. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> hi, reverend. >> good to be here, reverend. >> dana, are republicans really ready to cave? >> well, reverend, first of all, terrific particular to see you and ann coulter on the same page. they've caved already. they have said, we're going to agree to an $800 billion tax increase. it's entirely possible that they are going to go off the cliff any way. it doesn't mean that a deal is imminent. it basically means that they surrender. they used to say that they wouldn't give a d

, president obama is close to breaking the gop tax unity. >> unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. you know, he talks, for example, about $800 billion worth of revenues but he says he's going to do that by lowering rates. and when you look at the math, it doesn't work. if we're going to protect middle class families, then we're going to have to have higher rates for the wealthiest americans, folks like me. >> read his lips, no deal without a tax increase on the richest in this country. and get this, president obama is winning this argument. remember the anti-tax pledge? 44 republicans had distanced themselves from it. today conservative columnist david brooks says, republicans have to realize they're going to have to cave on tax rates. and conservative writer byron york writes, quote, republicans will cave. part of the reason for the shift is the president is staying strong on this issue. he did just -- he did that to just now and won an election. also, americans are saying clearly who they blame if the two sides don't reach a deal before the end of the yea

, with 53% support. in the next hour and a half, president obama will continue the great reasonableness tour of 2012. visiting a middle class family in northern virginia with the aim of putting more pressure on congress to extend middle income tax cuts. majority leader harry reid did his part for the cause on the senate floor today. >> so it's apparent how this will end. the only question is, when will it end? it's how long will speaker boehner make middle class families wait for relief and how long will he force the financial markets to wait for uncertainty. >> joining the panel now, the sage of capitol hill, the seasonally elegant luke russert. >> thank you so much for having me. >> you get a special intro when you arrive on set a little late. thrilled to have you here, with ongoing deliberation on capitol hill, you are the eyes. >> eyes and ears hopefully. yet i'm here, congress is recessed this week. >> always a reason, my friend. the fact that tim geithner came out and said, we will go over this cliff, is somewhat counter to what the president has been saying thus far. you couple t

helps the cause of barack obama? >> keeps taxes in the discussion, so it helps. >> you are a skeptic that there would be a deal. >> why would i be a skeptic? >> you believe we will gooff o the cliff. >> i do. i want to see the speaker put something on the floor that does not get the majority. >> i will make the prediction he will go there without knowing he had the majority. i have sources who claim this. shame wless plug. >> christmas, remember the folks in new jersey and new york. >> i have to go with my washington redskins. big game monday night, new york giants. wild card. >> lose record wild card? >> i know you're excited about facial hair being all the rage these days, but this is the last day of november. men's health issue prostate and tess ti testicular cancer. >>> that's it for the daily rundown. we'll see you back here tomorrow. coming up next, chris jansing. te of year again and now -- i got a great new way to get deals. it's called bankamerideals, from bank of america. i choose the cash back deals in my mobile or online banking. i just use my bank of america debit or cre

raise taxes on middle class families, let's begin our work with where we agree. >> president obama isn't talking about some moderate republican or some blue dog democrat, he is talking about conservative republican oklahoma congressman, tom cole. cole is the first republican to openly call for agreeing to middle class tax cuts. >> we all agree that we are not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of this discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases, continue to try to work honestly for a much bigger deal. >> democratic senator, patty murray, jumped on the tom cole bandwagon on msnbc. >> i really respect representative cole for saying the obvious. there is no need to hold 98% of our middle class families and 97% of our small businesses hostage just in order to protect the wealthiest americans. >> later, congressman cole explained the logic of his position to chris matthews this ink. >> what i think a lot of people forget is look, these tax rates are going up automatically unless congress act. i favor acting to

. >> both sides are coming out swinging. . >> raising tax rates will hurt the economy. >> i will not play that game. >> president obama standing his ground. >> i will not play that game. >> he's not willing to play that game. >> playing the smackdown. >> i think the president has boxed the republicans in. >> i know we have it to raise revenue. >> is he the only republican? >> i don't care how we do it. >> raising tax rates hurt the economy. >> let's just go over the [ bleep ] cliff. >> if they do not make this deal on tax rates for the top 2%, then they're going away. >> i just hope this doesn't become a game of chicken. >> i will not play that game. >> it goes into february and march. >> public opinion is on their side. >> when we have to raise the debt ceiling. >> i will not play that game. >> this is about gaining maximum leverage. >> we've gone through this before. >> some republicans believe that will give them more leverage. >> it's government at the brink all the time. >> these guys are not serious about negotiating. >> the next 72 hours are critical. >> i think we're going over th

tax rates, and i want to hear -- listen to president obama today talking about smflt other things, the spending cuts that are involved and what they're dealing with here. >> i think there's a recognition that maybe they can accept some rate increases as long as it's combined with serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts. if we can get the leadership on the republican side to take that framework, to acknowledge that reality, then the numbers actually aren't that far apart. another way of putting this is, we can probably solve this in about a week. it's not that tough. >> chris, there's the president saying he's ready to do serious entitlement reform and additional spending cuts, and no one seems to be noticing that. >> yeah. you know, i just talked about that. >> entitlement reform is medicare, medicaid and social security. >> that phrase, you would agree, right, the word "entitlement" has bizarre see mantic resonance to it. like you're whiningç and entitled, social insurance. >> it was an honorable entitlement, but meaning i paid into social security for 30 years.

. >> the answer's no. the thing obama couldn't get last time and can get this time is more revenue even if congress refuses to ask. we go over the fiscal cliff rates reset under bill clinton and you're negotiating a tax cut not a tax increase. other thing the way weight of public opinion since that level has moved strongly against republicans. look who the public says they're going to blame if we go over the cliff, it's republicans because they see them as having forced the issue last time around, been willing to do this this time around. one reason boehner is grumbly and nervous because he doesn't have any leverage. >> i want to point this out. this is interesting in terms of the smoke and mirrors how this will play out for the republicans. in the "wall street journal" they write obama's flexible on highest tax rates. white house's flexibility, described by bowls, confirmed by the administration officials, could envision tax rates -- tax rate increase from the current level but was less than clinton era levels. if the republicans can say, we cut taxes from where they were under clinton it

increasing taxes on the wealthiest americans and that is something that president obama says must be included in any plan, so white house communications director dan pfeifer just released this statement. i'm just getting it. quaet quote, the republican letter does not meet the test for balance. it sticks the middle class with the bill. their plan includes nothing new and provides no details on which deductions they would eliminate. independent analysts who have looked at plans like this one have concluded middle class taxes will have to go up to pay for lower rates for millionaires and billionaires. while the president is willing to compromise to get a significant balanced deal and believes compromise is available, he's not willing to compromise on the principles of fairness and balance that include asking the wealthiest to pay higher rates. that's just a portion of his statement but you see this fight is still really centering on this issue of taxes. the white house saying president obama is saying rates should go up on those making $250,000 or more. these are two starting proposals. the whi

oklahoma, saying republicans should support president obama's plan to raise taxes on folks who earn more than $250,000. he repeated that sentiment today. several other republicans said they'll violate his pledge. is there a full fledged revolt now against norquist? >> i think he is losing his influence. i have to add to karen's insight, democrats have elevated him, so has the media. the fact we are talking about him now adds to his mystique and power. i think grover used to be one of the only games in town when it came to spokesmen for this kind of movement and someone able to imply this pressure, there are other people on the right who can do this, other people just as good as he is. i have to say, this pledge has made the most sense to voters because it seems very simple. the fact it has loopholes and what not, i don't see people, oh, they violated the pledge, but there is that loophole. people now are looking for congress to make some common sense decisions and tom cole sounds like he's making common sense. his argument is as simple as no new taxes. >> thank you so much, once again, d

republicans by embracing president obama's plan to raise taxes on the wealthy stuck to his guns this morning. >> if we can give the american people an early christmas present, if they can listen to the debate instead of be worried that their own taxes are going to go up, i think that actually strengthens our hand. i haven't changed my mind. i'm not going to come out here and be disingenuous to people. i think it would be a step in the right direction. >> today john boehner expressed disappointment at where the negotiations stand. as our first read team points out, by siding with the white house tom cole may be helping boehner get the deal he wants. joining me now, political editor mark murray. why do you think tom cole has strengthened the speaker's position, negotiating position he goes in with? >> it has given john boehner some cover. you now have a conservativconse albeit establishment member of the house republican party who is essentially going to the left of john boehner. of course, john boehner has basically said, look, i disagree with tom cole. what has happened, we have actu

grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what grover says you see at any time other way. you say it will be the democrats. >> it could be. depending on what happens. if they keep posturing we can go off the fiscal cliff it won't be such a big deal i don't think that's where most democrats will end up. you they are president and a lot of people down in washington saying they don't want to go off the fiscal cliff. as far as grover norquist notices, i don't think republicans should be caving to a special interest of one, frankly. we do see some brave republicans coming out there and they should be supported because they are about finding a solution. >> i want to show this tomb the president playing golf

cliff. we start with president obama digging in his heels about raising taxes on the wealthiest. senior administration official telling "the wall street journal" there will be no new offers until republicans allow tax rates to go up on top earners. this morning, the president accusing the gop of brinksmanship while republican senator orrin hatch said democrats are asking for too much. >> it's unacceptable for some republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they refuse to let tax rates go up on the weltiest americans. >> what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the american people. a tax increase double the size of what he campaigned on. >> joining me now nbc white house news correspondent mike viqueira. what can you make of this? fiscal cliff talks are they a nonstarter? >> i tell you, you listen to everything that is being said publicly. you see the president there. it's clear that the election, yes, is over. but the campaign goes on here. you know, i really believe that there two things that are clear from the white house to

% unless the white house agreed to a tax revenue target well below the $1.6 trillion obama has demanded over the next decade. hello. open door anybody? that door on rates is clearly not entirely shut on the republican side nor on the president's side. "the post" lays out a scenario in which the house could adopt two competing bills, one extending the bush rates for everyone including the wealthy. the other extending the bush rates just for those making less than $250,000 a year. it gives republicans the opportunity to vote on both bills. both bills would then go to the senate. which would just pass the middle class tax cut bill or the house would end up passing what the senate already passed and that other bill just goes to die. so with it looking less and less likely washington will go over the cliff, that's gone. here are the real questions now. one, how big a deal will the parties make before the end of the year? two, have republicans stumbled into what could be political leverage at least in the short term? if all republicans do is extend the middle class tax cuts, punting

things that obama needed. he had a re-election coming up. he also wanted that big payroll tax which was essentially stimulus. he wanted the debt ceiling increase, the start treaty, don't ask, don't tell. they crammed a lot of stuff into that lame duck session. republicans had just cleaned up in that mid-term. republicans had the leverage. obama had the needs. obama does not face another re-election. it is republicans that have needs. they have grover norquist and these people on the right nipping at their heels. they have a need. obama has the leverage. we are seeing a reversal. democrats, the base, are not used to being winners. zat. we are the boss. we can do what we want. democrats are feeling excited because they actually have it over the republicans. >> i agree. i think in a certain way progressives tend to have a preference for being on outside. we almost prefer the sniping from the outside mentality of position. part of the danger for that is when you finally find yourself in the position of power, you have to be careful not to fredo out. we have this question about what do t

says the obama administration is compared to go over the cliff if taxes on the wealthy don't something up. it's our "news nation" gut check. do you agree? [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- you can stay in and share something... ♪ ♪ ...or you can get out there with your friends and actually share something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. is the same frequent heartburn treatment as prilosec otc. now with a fancy coating that gives you a burst of wildberry flavor. now why make a flavored heartburn pill? because this is america. and we don't just make things you want, we make things you didn't even know you wanted. like a spoon fork. spray cheese. and jeans made out of sweatpants. so grab yourself some new prilosec otc wildberry. [ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. satisfaction guaranteed or your money back. >>> hi, everyone. i'm tamron hall. the "news nation" is following developing news right now. the president is in northern vi